17:02:15 <jzb> #startmeeting
17:02:15 <cs-meeting> Meeting started Wed Oct 17 17:02:15 2012 UTC. The chair is jzb. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
17:02:15 <cs-meeting> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
17:02:33 * ke4qqq shows up
17:02:34 <jzb> #chair edison_cs iswc kdamage ke4qqq noe rohityadav techpubs widodh
17:02:34 <cs-meeting> Current chairs: edison_cs iswc jzb kdamage ke4qqq noe rohityadav techpubs widodh
17:02:48 <noe> .o/
17:02:49 <cloudbot> noe: Error: "o/" is not a valid command.
17:03:03 <noe> UR FACE IS NOT A VALID COMMAND
17:03:06 <jzb> Everybody knows the ground rules - reports + discussions, decisions are taken on the list.
17:03:16 <jzb> Please speak up when called even if you have nothing to report.
17:03:31 <jzb> and when you're done reporting, please give an EOF or something to indicate you're done talking. (smile)
17:03:46 <jzb> otherwise we're all kept in suspense.
17:03:57 <jzb> I believe edison_cs is first up
17:04:03 <jzb> edison_cs: anything to discuss or report?
17:04:09 <jzb> #topic edison_cs has the floor
17:04:18 <edison_cs> wow
17:04:32 <jzb> edison_cs: is that a good wow? (smile)
17:04:33 <edison_cs> anything news about 4.0 release?
17:04:47 <edison_cs> Still reading today's email
17:05:05 <edison_cs> do we new blocker bugs for 4.0?
17:05:41 <jzb> edison_cs: I believe there's a few new bugs
17:06:01 <edison_cs> ok, I am reading mails
17:06:04 <rohityadav> mostly docs, right?
17:06:06 <edison_cs> I am done
17:06:55 <jzb> rohityadav: I think there were a few things.
17:07:00 <jzb> edison_cs: thanks
17:07:13 <jzb> iswc: anything to discuss or report?
17:07:41 <techpubs> ye
17:08:00 <jzb> I guess not.
17:08:30 <jzb> kdamage: anything to discuss or report?
17:08:37 <kdamage> pass today, thanks
17:08:41 <jzb> ok
17:08:48 <jzb> ke4qqq: anything to discuss or report?
17:09:00 <jzb> #topic ke4qqq has the floor
17:09:03 <chipc> sorry folks - I'm here now
17:09:16 <jzb> #chair chipc
17:09:16 <cs-meeting> Current chairs: chipc edison_cs iswc jzb kdamage ke4qqq noe rohityadav techpubs widodh
17:09:23 <jzb> chipc: OK if we circle back?
17:09:34 <chipc> jzb: absolutely
17:09:37 <ke4qqq> jzb: not a lot working on docs atm
17:09:45 <ke4qqq> missing a comma there
17:09:59 <ke4qqq> bad sign that I can't even copyedit a single line irc message (smile)
17:10:06 <ke4qqq> EOF
17:10:17 <jzb> thanks!
17:10:29 <jzb> Looks like noe is next
17:10:35 <jzb> noe: anything to discuss or report?
17:10:42 <jzb> #topic noe has the floor
17:10:44 <noe> nothing from me... excitingly close to 4.0!
17:10:49 <rohityadav> jzb: you missed your turn?
17:10:53 <noe> and thanks for everybody's help!
17:11:15 <jzb> rohityadav: I skipped myself.
17:11:20 <rohityadav> (smile)
17:11:28 <jzb> rohityadav: that brings us to you - anything to discuss or report?
17:11:36 <jzb> #topic rohityadav has the floor
17:12:04 <rohityadav> one thing, about CLOUDSTACK-102, do we need to put everything in INSTALL.md, pkging and installation/upgrade
17:12:18 <rohityadav> it got reopened; pl. review: https://reviews.apache.org/r/7635/
17:12:34 <rohityadav> I did not want to commit before I get someone's review
17:13:18 <jzb> #link https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CLOUDSTACK-102
17:13:51 <techpubs> I reopened that due to Kevin Kluge's comment, see in the bug
17:13:55 <jzb> #link https://reviews.apache.org/r/7635/
17:14:28 <rohityadav> techpubs: yes, but we should link wiki or technical docs/guides; it's not possible to cover everthing in INSTALL.md?
17:14:49 <techpubs> I think the purpose of install.md was to give quick instructions, with a link to the install guide on the doc site for full info
17:14:59 <chipc> techpubs: +1
17:15:03 <rohityadav> so I did that, wrote briefly about Building and installing; yes!
17:15:31 <techpubs> Still, it would be helpful to have at least a sketch of the install steps after building – probably today's review request includes that
17:15:33 <rohityadav> techpubs: alright pl. review that or maybe ke4qqq or chipc can help...
17:16:07 <techpubs> Yep, jzb please give me the action tag!
17:16:07 <chipc> rohityadav: I'm not going to be able to look at this until tomorrow... $dayjob stuff
17:16:24 <ke4qqq> rohityadav: let me get through my current work and I'll take a look at it.
17:16:28 <rohityadav> techpubs: added briefly here, see https://reviews.apache.org/r/7635/diff/#index_header
17:16:35 <jzb> #action techpubs to review rohityadav fixes to install.md
17:16:37 <rohityadav> ok chipc, thanks ke4qqq
17:16:59 <jzb> rohityadav: anything else?
17:17:06 <rohityadav> okay I'm done
17:17:13 <jzb> rohityadav: groovy. Thanks!
17:17:19 <rohityadav> +1
17:17:23 <jzb> that brings us to sudhap
17:17:29 <jzb> sudhap: anything to discuss or report?
17:17:55 <jzb> #topic sudhap has the floor
17:18:15 <sudhap> jzb: thanks but nothing to discuss or report this week
17:18:23 <jzb> sudhap: thank you
17:18:33 <jzb> techpubs: that brings us to you
17:18:40 <jzb> anything to discuss or report?
17:18:45 <jzb> #topic techpubs has the floor
17:18:56 <techpubs> Hi all
17:19:07 <techpubs> I have sent quite a few Qs to the list in the past day or two
17:19:21 <techpubs> One particularly pressing one is which hypervisors we support
17:19:36 <chipc> techpubs: did my comments in the thread not help?
17:19:37 <jzb> techpubs: I think that was responded to today
17:19:38 <techpubs> Do we support vmware and ovm
17:19:52 <techpubs> And if all hypervisors are supported with plugins, how to handle that in the docs
17:20:01 <techpubs> OK, I will check my email again
17:20:16 <chipc> so just because it's in the plugin folder, that's not an indication that it isn't int he default build
17:20:25 <chipc> and we have 2 community provided build
17:20:35 <chipc> one is without VMware, due to licensing
17:20:36 <ke4qqq> and even if it isn't default - doesn't mean we shouldn't document it
17:20:37 <chipc> one with
17:20:38 <jzb> techpubs: see here: http://markmail.org/thread/p6bbszy3l4jjpop4
17:20:41 <jzb> #link http://markmail.org/thread/p6bbszy3l4jjpop4
17:21:00 <ke4qqq> just that we annotate that it isn't part of the default build
17:21:39 <techpubs> I suppose then I just need to know which are, and which aren't, in the default build. Say, there must be a wiki page where such release decisions are written down?
17:21:57 <chipc> VMware is the only one that we don't havwe in the default build
17:22:04 <techpubs> Ok.
17:22:22 <techpubs> So then we do need to get the vmware and OVM sections converted to XML and into the book. They aren't there now.
17:22:51 <ke4qqq> chipc: ovm made it in? edison_cs is that true?
17:23:12 <rohityadav> techpubs: here we note that couple of nonoss libs are necessary for that plugin; https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CLOUDSTACK/Building+with+Maven#BuildingwithMaven-BuildingCloudStack
17:23:13 <edison_cs> seems ovm is broken
17:23:19 <edison_cs> due to license
17:23:22 <rohityadav> * for respective plugins
17:23:22 <chipc> edison_cs: really?
17:23:34 <chipc> isn't that a release blocker?
17:23:41 <chipc> do we have a bug for that?
17:23:51 <edison_cs> Not sure, it's just in my memory
17:23:59 <edison_cs> I'll check with ovm engineer
17:24:01 <sudhap> edison_cs - there is one
17:24:02 <chipc> thx
17:24:17 <edison_cs> sudhap: do we test ovm on 4.0?
17:24:19 <chipc> sudhap: is it at blocker severity?
17:24:21 <ke4qqq> sudhap: does OVM work at all?
17:25:07 <edison_cs> commit: 7f8a1aabbf9b6764780e0c2ad870009c5555c2d4
17:25:12 <techpubs> Sudha can say whether her QA team tested OVM on the most recent
17:25:28 <techpubs> Last email I have, Sudha, I believe you said it was last tested on cloudstack 3.0.0 ?
17:25:50 <edison_cs> I don't think ovm will work
17:25:51 <sudhap> http://bugs.cloudstack.org/browse/CS-16488
17:26:06 <edison_cs> commit 7f8a1aabbf9b6764780e0c2ad870009c5555c2d4
17:26:06 <edison_cs> Author: frank <frank.zhang@citrix.com>
17:26:06 <edison_cs> Date: Thu Sep 13 13:42:29 2012 -0700
17:26:07 <edison_cs> remove patch for ovm agent due to license incompatible
17:26:07 <edison_cs> will keep them in another place
17:26:12 <sudhap> I will get it in to ASF jira
17:26:23 <chipc> ah - the old bug tracker - explins why I didn't see it
17:26:27 <chipc> sudhap: thanks
17:26:30 * ke4qqq thinks this larger discussion needs to move to the list - we are effectively talking about dropping a supported hypervisor - that's a big deal - and surprisingly OVM usage is common
17:26:52 <chipc> ke4qqq: I consider this a blocker until a list resolution
17:27:01 <ke4qqq> chipc: agreed
17:27:03 <jzb> who's going to take to the list?
17:27:16 <edison_cs> really? there are a lot of people are using ovm?
17:27:26 <kdamage> enough
17:27:27 <ke4qqq> edison_cs: more than I imagined
17:27:35 <techpubs> Enough that I was asked to write docs for it
17:27:40 <chipc> ke4qqq: oracle licensing is the reason
17:27:45 <jzb> edison_cs: even if it's one user, we should discuss keeping/dropping it on the list, yes?
17:27:46 <chipc> for their apps
17:27:53 <edison_cs> ok
17:28:26 <jzb> edison_cs: taking it to the list doesn't mean it can't be dropped, just that it's a larger project discussion.
17:29:05 <techpubs> Glad I brought it up!
17:29:22 <ke4qqq> did someone pick up the actionitem to mail the list?
17:29:30 <jzb> not that I saw - who's going to own that?
17:29:41 <edison_cs> I can do t hat
17:29:59 <techpubs> So Chip's reply to my email, linked in an earlier comment here, is not the final word on this. Edison will raise a discussion. Thanks!
17:30:11 <chipc> yup
17:30:22 <techpubs> My actual goal here is to avoid converting things to XML when I can avoid doing so
17:30:31 <techpubs> Why bring a lot of cruft along
17:30:52 <jzb> #action edison_cs to take OVM discussion to the list.
17:31:03 <techpubs> I have another item, if we're ready
17:31:24 <jzb> techpubs: bring it!
17:31:42 <techpubs> OK
17:31:58 <techpubs> Going through the AWS API compatibility section, which someone else converted to XML, I noticed some changes were made
17:32:08 <techpubs> Some language was added about things we plan to work on in the future
17:32:18 <techpubs> And the statement that we support the query interface was added
17:32:35 <techpubs> I checked with the engineers on awsapi, and that feature is not yet added.
17:32:36 <chipc> huh
17:32:46 <chipc> no, it isn't
17:32:48 <techpubs> So this is just a note that I corrected these items in the master branch last night / early this a.m.
17:33:09 <chipc> please be sure I have the commit-sh for anthing to merge into 4.0
17:33:26 <techpubs> I thought we were not adding any more doc changes to the 4.0 branch?
17:33:28 <jzb> techpubs: that might be worth a discussion on list about adding plans to docs...
17:33:48 <techpubs> Well yes, that is just part of knowing how to be a tech writer
17:33:52 <techpubs> I could send 100 notes like that to the list (smile)
17:34:09 <techpubs> Overall, I'm just grateful there are contributors wanting to help on docs
17:35:00 <techpubs> jzb: yes, I will say something on the list
17:35:00 <ke4qqq> chipc: we'll circle back when docs are in shape
17:35:34 <jzb> techpubs: if necessary... we need to some ideas about what belongs in or doesn't belong in docs
17:35:35 <techpubs> Just a general note that it seemed we had taken docs off the blocker list
17:35:38 <techpubs> Now they are back on.
17:36:08 <chipc> techpubs: I think that we have discovered that this is big enough that it's now gating
17:36:14 <techpubs> Luckily, I have no emergency "day job" duties right now, so I can devote some time to fixing up the Installation Guide especially.
17:36:21 <ke4qqq> yeah - and a couple of asks IMO.
17:36:32 <ke4qqq> 1. Please review the docs - and try following them for an install
17:37:16 <ke4qqq> In the future they really need to be done before we get serious about testing a release and become part of the official 'test plan' - that is we test install from docs.
17:37:38 <chipc> ke4qqq: I'm going to block you for the use of "asks" as a noun... (wink) Working in product marketing is no excuse! You point is good though.
17:37:48 <techpubs> Yes.
17:37:58 <ke4qqq> 2. sanity check.
17:38:04 <techpubs> All step by step procedures in docs should be user-tested by someone other than the author.
17:38:05 <ke4qqq> chipc: you wound me
17:38:21 <jzb> ke4qqq: not on the committers I hope
17:38:40 <techpubs> chipc: yeah, cut ke4qqq a break, he is just trying to maximize his positive impact on this project
17:38:48 * ke4qqq snorts
17:39:10 * ke4qqq is just trying not to end up a curmudgeonly misanthrope (smile)
17:39:24 <jzb> you say that like it's a bad thing
17:39:28 <chipc> I think that leveraging our synergistic capabilityies is a critical component of cloud enablement
17:39:41 <chipc> moving on, sorry
17:39:42 <kdamage> wow nice lexicon ke4qqq
17:39:44 <ke4qqq> anyway
17:40:11 <techpubs> Yes, back to the docs...
17:40:14 <ke4qqq> we really need to be looking at the docs, there is a ton of cruft in them from citrix days
17:40:22 <techpubs> I'm actually glad that the docs are now considered required and not optional !
17:40:48 <techpubs> Yes. So, we can make this a signup task just as for XML conversion. Divide up the docs by section, have reviewers sign up for sections. Yes?
17:41:06 <chipc> techpubs: do you have a good feel for what is (1) left to fix, and (2) who (perhaps nobody) has signed up to fix?
17:41:55 <techpubs> I think so, if I understand what you mean by "fix"
17:42:05 <ke4qqq> I am going to set all of the docs on master to building on each commit - so feel free to pick up new copies to read on jenkins - and I'll be hanging out in cloudstack-dev all day.
17:42:14 <chipc> fix = write, correct, review, whatever
17:42:35 <chipc> ke4qqq: good idea
17:42:35 <techpubs> Yes. So, there is nobody signed up as such to review all the docs.
17:43:05 <techpubs> There is nobody signed up to add VMware and OVM install sections to the installation guide in XML. This is a cut and paste job, plus removing any Citrix cruft as you go.
17:43:32 <techpubs> BTW, there is no build job for the Developer's Guide on the 4.0 branch.
17:43:35 <techpubs> Only on master.
17:44:19 <techpubs> Also, Radhika urgently needs someone to correct the upgrade steps in the 4.0 release notes. I think ke4qqq might be on that?
17:44:20 <jzb> that brings up an interesting question - do we have anyone with access to VMware to actually test the docs?
17:44:39 <techpubs> Sudha?
17:44:48 <jzb> I can cut & paste but I don't have VMware systems on hand to test anything
17:44:59 <edison_cs> I think QA does test vmware on 4.0 before
17:45:00 <ke4qqq> I am on that - still going through upgrade stuff in RN
17:45:10 <sudhap> techpubs:VMWare has been tested
17:45:22 <rohityadav> +1
17:45:36 <ke4qqq> techpubs: we are working in master for now, so that build job should work ok - we'll merge to 4.0 after we get ready.
17:45:43 <edison_cs> rohityadav: will you like to add a developer guide build for 4.0?
17:45:45 <techpubs> sudhap: Tested on Citrix CloudPlatform 3.0.5 ?
17:46:19 <sudhap> techpubs: tested for ASF 4.0
17:46:24 <techpubs> Awesome.
17:46:47 <jzb> sudhap: but we were talking about actually stepping through the install stuff in docs
17:46:48 <techpubs> Circling back: do we want to distribute the review task by section, or does everyone just want to agree to read everything? It's only 200 pages or so total...
17:46:56 <rohityadav> edison_cs: sorry don't understand what you're saying, we already have docs, right?
17:46:57 <techpubs> ...maybe 300 if you count the dev guide...
17:46:58 <cloudbot> techpubs: Error: "..maybe" is not a valid command.
17:47:11 <techpubs> maybe 300 pages if you count the dev guide
17:47:21 <jzb> sudhap: so do you know if the existing docs that would be copied over are still accurate for ASF 4.0.0-incubating?
17:47:27 <rohityadav> edison_cs: developers should go for the runbook (which we can fix/add stuff), wiki, irc, ml
17:47:39 <edison_cs> techpubs: BTW, there is no build job for the Developer's Guide on the 4.0 branch.
17:47:52 <rohityadav> ...cloudbot?
17:47:54 <cloudbot> rohityadav: Error: "..cloudbot?" is not a valid command.
17:47:54 <ke4qqq> techpubs: there is a failure in the admin guide http://jenkins.cloudstack.org/view/master/job/build-docs-admin-master/140/console
17:47:58 <edison_cs> techpubs: can you explain what's issue to rohityadav
17:48:11 <edison_cs> regarding "there is no build job for the Developer's Guide on the 4.0 branch."
17:48:18 <rohityadav> ok
17:48:31 <techpubs> rohityadav: there is a developer's guide written. The files for it are checked in to the ASF 4.0 branch. But there is no build job on Jenkins to build that book.
17:48:58 <ke4qqq> rohityadav: we are working in master so it shouldn't be an issue in te short term - but feel free to copy the job from master to 4.0 - should be a single parameter change
17:49:16 <techpubs> rohityadav: The runbook isn't a dev guide. The dev guide tells how to use the CloudStack API. It contains a lot of useful information.
17:49:43 <rohityadav> techpubs: got it, edison_cs try if you can add a build taret today on jenkins.c.o; I'm tired need to catch up some sleep
17:49:55 <rohityadav> or, will do that tomorrow
17:50:01 <rohityadav> *target
17:50:02 <edison_cs> no hurry(smile)
17:50:07 <rohityadav> (big grin) ok
17:50:08 <ke4qqq> rohityadav: sleep is good - no need to rush
17:50:25 <techpubs> The job on the master branch is called build-docs-devguide-master.
17:51:00 <techpubs> I'm almost done having the floor here...
17:51:57 <edison_cs> #action: copy build-docs-devguide-master to 4.0 on jenkins.c.o, rohityadav
17:52:02 <techpubs> So circling back to a question I asked earlier: is there some place where all the changes that were made to the Citrix version in order to make the Apache version are recorded?
17:52:10 <rohityadav> ok creating a job
17:52:12 <techpubs> Not in the commit logs, I mean (smile)
17:52:21 <rohityadav> let's see http://jenkins.cloudstack.org/job/build-docs-devguide-4.0/
17:52:42 <ke4qqq> techpubs: i don't think there is anywhere other than git that it would be recorded
17:52:50 <techpubs> ke4qqq: I can check into that admin guide thing. Thanks.
17:53:22 <edison_cs> techpubs: If I want to preview the docs for 4.0, where should I take a look at?
17:53:32 <techpubs> So, such a list would be massively helpful to people, starting with me. I will need to go down that checklist in order to make sure the docs don't include Citrix-only stuff.
17:53:36 <ke4qqq> edison_cs: look at the master builds for each document on jenkins
17:53:41 <edison_cs> ok
17:53:54 <techpubs> And I'm sure prospective users will want to know the difference between the two. In fact, during some user testing I participated in this summer, that was the users' #1 question.
17:54:06 <techpubs> They couldn't distinguish between the open-source and commercial versions.
17:54:24 <ke4qqq> techpubs: that's a one time issue I think, - you can always diff after the fact
17:54:47 <edison_cs> both are almost the same the code base,
17:54:51 <edison_cs> but due the license issue
17:55:06 <edison_cs> we removed some stuff, such as ovm
17:55:17 <techpubs> That's the kind of thing I mean.
17:55:52 <techpubs> Also, Ubuntu is supported by 4.0, even the latest version of Ubuntu
17:55:52 <techpubs> That's another difference
17:55:54 <rohityadav> alright, as a new user (say) I'll be very confused which one to follow, INSTALL.md, cwiki.a.o, wiki.c.o, docs.c.o, incubator.a.o/cloudstack
17:56:04 <edison_cs> yah, that's the new feature we added into 4.0
17:56:27 <rohityadav> we need to fix the fragmentation of information; only two: one online and one offline (docs/pdfs)
17:56:35 <chipc> techpubs: we shouldn't worry about the diff between CloudPlatform and CloudSatck (you might have to, but that's not the point ffor the CloudStack community)
17:56:54 <kdamage> lol thats why a couple of us in the community are writting a book on CS. The docs are confusing.
17:56:58 <chipc> Citrix needs to solve the issue of confusion by being clear about how they are different from the CloudStack project
17:57:05 <techpubs> chipc: But I need to know the diff in order to get the CS 4.0 docs correct. How is there not a features list for 4.0? There must be one.
17:57:20 <ke4qqq> techpubs: see my blog
17:57:31 <chipc> plus the CHANGES file
17:57:34 <ke4qqq> I posted about that - there's also a feature page on the wiki done by topcloud
17:57:48 <techpubs> ke4qqq: your blog is the project requirements page? Seems a bit ... informal.
17:58:08 <techpubs> ke4qqq: Bingo. I'm just asking where is that feature page in the wiki?
17:58:42 <jzb> techpubs: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CLOUDSTACK/CloudStack+4.0+Release
17:58:45 <jzb> I believe
17:58:53 <techpubs> chipc: CHANGES file – something I don't know about, please explain, or do so offline in email, OK?
17:58:53 <jzb> #link https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CLOUDSTACK/CloudStack+4.0+Release
17:59:07 <chipc> techpubs: CHANGES file in the root of the source code
17:59:18 <jzb> techpubs: any open source project worth its salt should have a CHANGES file in its top level directory
17:59:21 <chipc> see links in the previous VOTE emails
17:59:27 <techpubs> rohityadav: Agree we need to fix the fragmentation, don't agree that docs = "offline"
17:59:36 <chipc> High level, but a summary of the "release notes" doc
17:59:48 <chipc> feel free to edit and correct
18:00:38 <jzb> techpubs: anything else? We're at 1 hour now.
18:01:03 <techpubs> Yes, I feel it's enough for now. There can always be more on the list. Thanks to everyone for your help. I will suggest the review signup sheet on list and see if anyone takes it up.
18:01:23 <jzb> techpubs: thank you
18:01:35 <rohityadav> techpubs, edison_cs: build success: http://jenkins.cloudstack.org/job/build-docs-devguide-4.0/1/
18:01:43 <jzb> #action techpubs will take a review signup sheet to the list.
18:02:01 <jzb> widodh: anything to discuss or report?
18:02:06 <rohityadav> techpubs: what I meant was the same publican docbook served online and available offline
18:02:16 <jzb> not sure if widodh is around today
18:02:25 <chipc> widodh isn't around (per his email(
18:02:31 <jzb> chipc: ah, missed that. Thanks.
18:02:36 <jzb> OK, that brings us back around to you
18:02:41 <jzb> chipc: anything to discuss or report?
18:02:47 <jzb> #topic chipc has the floor
18:02:48 <chipc> ok - 2 things: Clearly docs is the current blocker
18:02:50 <edison_cs> rohityadav: it's cool, reading the docs
18:02:52 <chipc> and OVM
18:03:00 <chipc> so those 2 have to be sorted
18:03:06 <chipc> before I cut another RC
18:03:24 <rohityadav> edison_cs: ok, check if they are building fine, the output pdfs form jenkins.cloudstack.org/job/build-docs-devguide-4.0/
18:03:27 <rohityadav> *from
18:03:37 <jzb> #info 2 blockers to release: OVM & docs currently.
18:03:38 <chipc> that's actually my EOF
18:03:52 <jzb> chipc: thanks!
18:03:54 <chipc> I'm not going to start round 3 until we get to concensus on them
18:03:55 <chipc> thx
18:04:06 <jzb> any last items before we shut down?
18:04:19 <jzb> going once...
18:04:27 <chipc> thanks for running the mtg jzb
18:04:40 <jzb> chipc: those who can't code... (smile)
18:05:09 <jzb> OK - that's it for this week's installment. Thanks everyone for showing up, and all your work.
18:05:13 <jzb> #endmeeting

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