CloudStack Meeting 7 November 2012 Log

18:04:59 <jzb> #startmeeting
18:04:59 <cs-meeting> Meeting started Wed Nov 7 18:04:59 2012 UTC. The chair is jzb. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
18:04:59 <cs-meeting> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
18:05:22 <jzb> #chair chipc cvittal edison_cs iswc ke4qqq noe topcloud
18:05:22 <cs-meeting> Current chairs: chipc cvittal edison_cs iswc jzb ke4qqq noe topcloud
18:05:35 <chipc> hi three
18:05:38 <jzb> Happy post-release day all
18:05:40 <chipc> yes, I don't know how to tell time
18:06:00 <topcloud> i blamed it on outlook.
18:06:13 <chipc> I blame my brain tissue
18:06:16 <jzb> topcloud: that's always a winner. Can't go wrong with that strategy.
18:06:47 <jzb> So, I'm going to start just a little different today
18:06:54 <jzb> #link https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CLOUDSTACK/CloudStack+Meeting+31+October+2012+Minutes
18:07:02 <jzb> #topic last week's minutes
18:07:26 <jzb> that's the minutes from last week. Might be good to take a look at the action items from last week and get a report on those as we go around the room.
18:07:49 <jzb> let's start - bhaisaab are you around and have anything to report / discuss?
18:08:10 <jzb> #topic getting individual reports
18:08:31 <jzb> OK, moving on.
18:08:31 * bhaisaab here now
18:08:38 * bhaisaab sorry got late
18:08:48 <jzb> bhaisaab: OK. Anything to report/discuss?
18:09:16 <bhaisaab> jzb: to report, cli is out there go play, to discuss: debian pkging updates anyone?
18:09:38 <jzb> #chair bhaisaab sudhap
18:09:38 <cs-meeting> Current chairs: bhaisaab chipc cvittal edison_cs iswc jzb ke4qqq noe sudhap topcloud
18:09:56 <jzb> bhaisaab: I thought I saw something on package updates on the mailing list, but I may have been imagining it.
18:10:06 <jzb> bhaisaab: something from Wido, I believe.
18:10:09 <bhaisaab> jzb: okay is Hugo around?
18:10:23 <kdamage> Sorry I'm late
18:10:48 <bhaisaab> yes, so rpm is fine, for debs we still have a lot of pending work to do, any suggestions or feedback people here would want to make
18:10:50 <jzb> #topic package updates
18:10:56 <jzb> #link http://markmail.org/message/uxb7c7cznoqifijw
18:11:43 <bhaisaab> I just want this to be fixed so we don't have to deal with this at the 11th hour and we can get daily builds from jenkins so people can test out master
18:11:51 <jzb> bhaisaab: understood.
18:12:01 <jzb> bhaisaab: perhaps start a separate thread or follow up on the list?
18:12:09 <jzb> Doesn't look like the right folks are here to discuss.
18:12:11 <bhaisaab> jzb: okay
18:12:24 <bhaisaab> yes, will put that on ml....
18:12:30 <jzb> #action bhaisaab will take up discussion on packages on the -dev mailing list.
18:12:36 <jzb> bhaisaab: thanks! Anything else?
18:12:38 <bhaisaab> done from my side; btw once again congrats for 4.0 everyone
18:12:48 <jzb> bhaisaab: so say we all. Thanks!
18:12:50 <bhaisaab> now to focus on 4.1.0
18:13:02 <jzb> chipc: anything to discuss or report?
18:13:12 <chipc> action items that I had from last week
18:13:30 <chipc> 1 - open discussion on schedule for 4.1 - done, but I need to wrangle that thread to closure
18:13:45 <chipc> 2 - open discussion on bug-fix releases - done, but again, needs to be wrangled to closure
18:13:57 <chipc> that's about it
18:14:17 <chipc> EOF, unless someone has a question for me
18:14:36 <jzb> #action chipc will wrangle 4.1 and bug-fix releases to closure this week.
18:15:00 <jzb> chipc: thanks much!
18:15:09 <chipc> yup
18:15:13 <jzb> cvittal: anything to discuss or report?
18:15:20 <cvittal> nope
18:15:32 <jzb> cvittal: thanks for the brevity
18:15:39 <chipc> cvittal: question for you
18:15:44 <cvittal> sure
18:16:13 <chipc> so do you happen to know anything about the CloudPlatform work that was done with Cisco for Synergy, and if we can expect to see anything like that brought back into CloudStack?
18:16:21 <chipc> you can also feel free to punt on that question
18:16:51 <cvittal> yes, I did work on that. It is about 60% complete, but I haven't found time to bring it to completion
18:17:22 <cvittal> I was working off of apache master, not CP
18:18:13 <chipc> gotcha - is there a design discussion or email thread about it? would be good to understand it before you drop it into the repo
18:18:24 <chipc> and thx btw - I'll actually be a user of that work
18:18:25 <cvittal> one of the reasons I hesitated is that the way I integrated may be obsolete soon. It seems that Cisco might come out with new APIs
18:18:42 <chipc> ok - suggestion then - can we discuss on the list?
18:18:46 <cvittal> sure
18:19:02 <chipc> I'm pretty in tune with the UCS stuff, so I think we could collaborate on things like timing and versions to support
18:19:12 <chipc> ok - thanks cvittal - appreciate the info
18:20:03 <jzb> #action cvittal discussion about Cisco/UCS work on mailing list
18:20:13 <jzb> OK, let's go to edison_cs next
18:20:17 <jzb> edison_cs: anything to report or discuss
18:20:18 <jzb> ?
18:20:28 <edison_cs> not this time
18:20:55 <edison_cs> moving forward
18:20:58 <topcloud> edison_cs: have you send out your storage spec changes?
18:21:05 <edison_cs> oh, not yet
18:22:10 <jzb> edison_cs: any idea about the failing Jenkins builds right now?
18:22:10 <topcloud> edison_cs: please send it out.
18:22:25 <edison_cs> on master?
18:22:26 <jzb> Looks like builds have been failing for some time.
18:22:36 <jzb> yeah
18:22:52 <edison_cs> rpm/deb build for sure will be failed
18:23:28 <edison_cs> that's bhaisaab talking about, the build on master is not finished yet
18:23:45 <edison_cs> topcloud: will do, let me send it out this week
18:23:57 <bhaisaab> for 40, jenkins is unable to connect to agent/slave; for master it the same issue; I see out of memory exceptions
18:24:01 <bhaisaab> *4.0
18:24:25 <jzb> edison_cs: yeah, it looks like that's also a problem for master
18:24:31 <edison_cs> may need to reboot this vms
18:24:33 <bhaisaab> edison_cs: something wrong with the machines, agent is not able to start the build process
18:24:46 <bhaisaab> yes, or restart jenkins
18:25:05 <jzb> http://jenkins.cloudstack.org/job/build-master/buildTimeTrend
18:25:17 <jzb> been failing for a bit.
18:25:27 <edison_cs> jzb: can I ask a question
18:25:32 <jzb> edison_cs: sure
18:25:44 <jzb> edison_cs: I can't promise an answer, but you can ask
18:25:45 <edison_cs> how people usually, draw diagram on cwiki?
18:26:14 <jzb> edison_cs: I think you usually use a graphics program and just include an image
18:26:29 <jzb> I don't know of any features for drawing diagrams in the wiki itself.
18:26:35 <edison_cs> ok
18:26:59 <jzb> edison_cs: I'm liking Omnigraffle, though it's a bit pricey at $200 for the full pro version.
18:27:16 <jzb> not sure if you're a Mac guy, though.
18:27:39 <edison_cs> I like the online tool
18:27:49 <jzb> edison_cs: which one?
18:28:10 <edison_cs> http://www.draw.io/
18:28:12 <chipc> did you guys have Graffle installed on the old wiki?
18:28:13 <edison_cs> or other tools
18:28:15 <chipc> oh, that
18:28:19 <bhaisaab> edison_cs: I use dia (ubuntu), a python tool to programmatically or using gui draw chart diagrams
18:28:31 <topcloud> edison_cs: I usually draw it and then copy and paste it over which ends up with an image and then I attach the original file to the page so people can edit it.
18:28:59 <chipc> http://www.asciiflow.com/#Draw
18:29:01 <chipc>
18:29:03 <edison_cs> topcloud: which tool? viso?
18:29:08 <chipc> everything in ASCII
18:29:20 <topcloud> visio, powerpoint, any of them.
18:29:32 <topcloud> chipc: cool.
18:29:53 <jzb> well, ideally we'd pick something with a format anyone can edit
18:30:04 <edison_cs> yah, that's I am thinking
18:30:06 <jzb> if we're doing stuff that may need to be edited later on by someone else.
18:30:16 <bhaisaab> edison_cs: https://live.gnome.org/Dia/Screenshots
18:30:18 <jzb> because I don't think Microsoft even does Visio for the Mac
18:30:28 <chipc> nope
18:30:31 <bhaisaab> svg!
18:30:31 <jzb> and you can't use OmniGraffle on Windows
18:30:46 <cvittal> gliffy.com : generate svg
18:31:10 <edison_cs> are there tools can integrate with cwiki
18:31:14 <bhaisaab> okay dia is available for linux, mac, windows and outputs svgs, pngs etc.
18:31:19 <bhaisaab> https://live.gnome.org/Dia/Download
18:31:23 <edison_cs> so people can just draw it inside cwiki
18:31:28 <edison_cs> and everybody can edit it
18:31:48 <jzb> bhaisaab: is it less clunky than it used to be?
18:31:58 * jzb remembers fighting with Dia in the early 00's.
18:31:59 <bhaisaab> edison_cs: maybe use google doc/diagram for collaborative diagram editing?
18:32:15 <edison_cs> cwiki use Confluence
18:32:16 <bhaisaab> jzb: it's fine, I like it
18:32:39 <edison_cs> Confluence should have something for drawing diagram plugin?
18:32:42 <jzb> bhaisaab: I like Vim, too - not sure I'd recommend it for everybody.
18:32:44 <bhaisaab> edison_cs: give link on wiki on whatever image we want to collaboratively edit?
18:33:04 <bhaisaab> jzb: I sure would, at least to developers
18:33:08 <chipc> Gliffy works with confluence - but it requires a plugin, and costs $
18:33:17 <edison_cs> https://marketplace.atlassian.com/plugins/com.gliffy.integration.confluence;jsessionid=1ftbpfiz37dnt1oa7ir16vozku
18:33:22 <edison_cs> yah
18:33:28 <edison_cs> it cost money
18:33:45 <bhaisaab> is there a way we can get a free license for opensource use?
18:33:48 <topcloud> and cwiki is apache infra too right?
18:33:54 <topcloud> tough to add these things on?
18:34:23 <chipc> topcloud - exactly
18:34:26 <chipc> that's the issue
18:34:44 <chipc> but, if the company is willing and if infra is willing, it could be done
18:34:46 <jzb> edison_cs: do you foresee a lot of diagramming needed ?
18:34:58 <jzb> or is this a nice-to-have?
18:35:03 <chipc> jzb: software design always has diagramming
18:35:19 <chipc> (or should)
18:35:25 <edison_cs> jzb: I draw some diagrams on draw.io
18:35:35 <edison_cs> but can't share it on cwiki
18:35:47 <jzb> chipc: I'll leave that decision to the developers - I'd just say I haven't run into a lot of projects that have wikis with diagramming capability
18:36:00 <edison_cs> I have to save it as png, then attach it to cwiki
18:36:15 <jzb> so it's a question of whether we need it badly enough to pursue getting a license and working with infra to get it up on Cwiki
18:36:40 <chipc> edison_cs - this is a really good question… should be on list… IMO, we do need to pick something / somehow to allow all to edit the diagrams
18:36:55 <topcloud> +1
18:37:07 <bhaisaab> edison_cs: does cwiki support adding svgs? if yes, we can just add them to cwiki, edit them as needed (they xmls afterall)
18:37:16 <edison_cs> bhaisaab: seems no
18:37:32 <edison_cs> chipc: +1
18:37:34 <bhaisaab> edison_cs: oh, alrighty, over to the ML
18:37:48 <edison_cs> ok, let
18:37:52 <edison_cs> 's move on
18:37:58 * bhaisaab silently slips his +1 to chipc
18:38:08 <jzb> anybody willing to take that up on the list?
18:38:19 <bhaisaab> edison_cs?
18:38:26 <edison_cs> ok, no problem
18:38:26 <chipc> btw - I'm actually serious about ASCII diagrams
18:38:35 <chipc> but to the list!
18:38:35 <edison_cs> chipc: come on
18:38:40 <edison_cs> we need uml
18:38:43 <edison_cs>
18:38:58 <bhaisaab> chipc: I like them too, but won't scale for big diagrams
18:39:07 <jzb> #action edison_cs will bring up a discussion about diagramming tools on -dev
18:39:12 <jzb> next up
18:39:14 <topcloud> chipc: i just tried it. it's nice but it's somewhat lacking in drawing technical diagrams. it works more like paint.
18:39:18 <jzb> iswc: anything to discuss or report?
18:39:46 * jzb will just break out his sketchbook and do some lovely charcoal renderings.
18:40:25 * jzb hasn't drawn since May. Misses it.
18:40:33 <jzb> OK, nothing from iswc
18:40:40 <jzb> that would be me next
18:40:54 <jzb> last week's actions
18:41:00 <jzb> have redirected cs.org to the incubator site
18:41:06 <chipc> yay
18:41:16 <jzb> deployed the site, will continue tweaking + updating of course
18:41:33 <jzb> I also saw several commits from other folks so it looks like we've got a reasonable workflow going for the site now?
18:41:38 <bhaisaab> kudos jzb!
18:41:57 <jzb> I raised the blog topic on the list, not much discussion there.
18:42:06 <topcloud> jzb: nice job! I was looking through it.
18:42:14 <jzb> I'll try to bring that to a close this week, but I am not detecting a lot of interest one way or the other yet.
18:42:15 <chipc> jzb: re-ping the list, and then declare lazy concensus
18:42:17 <topcloud> jzb: I can't find the next release page any more?
18:42:22 <jzb> #action finish discussion on blog
18:42:30 <jzb> topcloud, bhaisaab thanks
18:42:35 <jzb> topcloud: which page?
18:42:57 <topcloud> jzb: On the cwiki, there used to be a next release page that's meant for people to add features?
18:43:29 <jzb> topcloud: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CLOUDSTACK/CloudStack+Next+Release
18:43:32 <jzb> is still there
18:43:37 <jzb> I haven't re-added the link yet.
18:43:42 <topcloud> jzb: Also, the current 4.0 release page on cwiki had a list of features that made it or not. Should we add that to the downloads page?
18:43:44 <jzb> was trying to clean up the front page
18:44:02 <jzb> topcloud: shouldn't that be in the release notes?
18:44:17 <jzb> #action jzb add link to release notes on the downloads page.
18:44:20 <topcloud> jzb: ok...i directed a lot of people to that so want to make sure it's still around.
18:44:41 <jzb> topcloud: yeah, I cleaned up the front page but I haven't removed any child pages or anything.
18:44:49 <jzb> so the content is still there.
18:45:02 <jzb> topcloud: thanks for calling that out.
18:45:09 <chipc> jzb: yes, actually the download page should point to both the announcement and the release notes
18:45:20 <jzb> chipc: I'll fix that up right after the meeting
18:45:25 <chipc> didn't have them available the last time I edited
18:45:26 <chipc> cool
18:45:47 <jzb> I think that was everything
18:45:57 <jzb> we'll go to kdamage next
18:46:03 <jzb> kdamage: anything to discuss or report?
18:46:03 <jzb> "
18:46:10 <kdamage> Yup
18:47:03 <kdamage> Same old, requesting update on planet Cloudstack, also with the wiki fix up, this would be a good time to check in with infra on plugins/themes/etc
18:47:39 <chipc> john had a personal thing, but I'm sure he'll pick up the planet as soon as he's able to
18:47:59 <kdamage> Cool
18:48:11 <jzb> kdamage: anything else?
18:48:16 <bhaisaab> kdamage: till then we can post on planet.apache.org?
18:48:27 <kdamage> Nope
18:48:36 <bhaisaab> do other apache projects have their own planet?
18:48:40 <kdamage> That's restricted to committers
18:48:43 <jzb> bhaisaab: some do
18:48:45 <bhaisaab> kdamage: oh
18:48:49 <bhaisaab> okay got it
18:49:02 <bhaisaab> jzb: cool, so we can have one too
18:49:14 <topcloud> so if i want to write a blog today, where do i go?
18:49:16 <jzb> bhaisaab: yes, it's in the works, just taking a little longer than hoped.
18:49:16 <kdamage> That's all for me
18:49:19 <topcloud> might be silly question.
18:49:27 <topcloud> never done it b4.
18:49:29 <jzb> topcloud: you should have a blog
18:49:33 <jzb> of your own
18:49:38 <bhaisaab> jzb: cool
18:49:42 <chipc> topcloud: you should host it yourself probably - somewhere… blogger, wordpress, whatever
18:49:50 <chipc> then, you can add your feed to planet.apache.org
18:49:53 <kdamage> The planet will aggregate our personal blogs
18:49:55 <jzb> I don't recall - will the cs planet have actual blogging abilities or just aggregate?
18:49:56 <chipc> and (eventually) the cs planet
18:50:03 <chipc> just aggregate
18:50:05 <jzb> good
18:50:06 <topcloud> chipc: ic...thx
18:50:06 <jzb> OK
18:50:07 <bhaisaab> topcloud: yes you should blog, tons of good stuff we would love to hear about from you
18:50:26 <jzb> and yes - everyone should blog. If you don't have a blog yet, please go forth and create one.
18:50:35 <kdamage> Lol
18:50:44 <jzb> doesn't have to be complicated or great prose
18:50:48 <bhaisaab> topcloud: if you want minimal (no db) git workflow based blog: https://github.com/mojombo/jekyll (mine is jekyll based too)
18:51:04 <jzb> I like Michael Meeks' approach for folks who aren't verbose:
18:51:05 <jzb> http://people.gnome.org/~michael/
18:51:23 <jzb> anyway - moving on
18:51:34 <jzb> ke4qqq: are you about? Anything to discuss or report?
18:53:26 <jzb> OK
18:53:32 <jzb> noe: anything to discuss or report?
18:54:21 <jzb> sudhap: anything to discuss or report?
18:54:33 <sudhap> jzb: yes
18:55:16 <sudhap> wanted to check if scope for 4.1 is finalized or being worked on. by looking at the next release page, i would think still some features are missing.
18:55:43 <chipc> sudhap: so I think we need to follow up on that on list - we're talking about time-based releases, not feature based releases
18:56:10 <chipc> which basically means that there is a window to get included, and if a feature is done, has docs, and has tests, and merges in time… it can go it
18:56:20 <sudhap> ok
18:56:29 <chipc> I see your email about it… I've just been swamped
18:56:54 <chipc> I have a note to take that thread to as much closure as possible this week, and your question is an important related topic
18:57:03 <sudhap> chipc: thanks
18:57:15 <topcloud> it does make sense to have a web page about it.
18:57:24 <topcloud> for example, people asked to see something like that in 4.0.
18:57:39 <topcloud> i've also had people complained that they didn't know we closed 4.0 feature set.
18:57:46 <sudhap> topcloud: do you mean release scope??
18:58:50 <topcloud> sudhap: no what i mean is lots of people are proposing things.
18:59:12 <topcloud> it's hard to keep track on mailing list. They should just edit this page and add in the things chip says.
18:59:20 <sudhap> ok
18:59:28 <topcloud> when did code freeze happen, when was it testing, when the docs are ready.
18:59:36 <sudhap> ok
18:59:45 <cvittal> I need to head to another meeting, see you folks next week
18:59:56 <chipc> topcloud - I'd like to see that workflow in Jira tickets personally
19:00:11 * bhaisaab o/ cvittal
19:00:16 <jzb> didn't we discuss having a Jira ticket + email + page on wiki ?
19:00:20 <chipc> and then we can create filters that give visibility into the status of things
19:00:26 <chipc> jzb: we did
19:00:30 <chipc> the combination is needed
19:00:31 <jzb> Jira for tracking, email for discussion and page on wiki to explain
19:00:37 <chipc> right
19:00:46 <chipc> that's what I'm in favor of
19:00:57 <jzb> chipc: and that's part of your existing discussions?
19:01:07 <chipc> have to dig that up somewhere
19:01:09 <topcloud> is the page on wiki a spec of the feature?
19:01:12 <chipc> I think it was a different thread
19:01:20 <jzb> Hm. I think you're right.
19:01:24 <chipc> topcloud: yes - spec / design / whatever you want to call it
19:01:33 <topcloud> i agree with all of that.
19:01:43 <chipc> jira does the tracking then - with the state of the tasks
19:01:56 <chipc> and the list is for discussion around the design and decisions around state chagnes
19:01:59 <topcloud> i'm just saying for the users and for people who wants one page to see what happened for a certain release.
19:02:04 <chipc> s/list/email list/g
19:02:37 <chipc> are you saying for 4.0.0-incubating, what changed? If we were using Jira, that would be easy - plus we have the release notes
19:02:38 <jzb> topcloud: we should probably have a wiki page for each release
19:03:04 <jzb> topcloud: something like this?
19:03:06 <jzb> http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Evergreen_11.1
19:03:33 <chipc> stuff like that should be data driven
19:03:37 <jzb> or like this?http://en.opensuse.org/Portal:11.1
19:03:42 <topcloud> or even the page we had for 4.0 was fine but everyone should update it.
19:04:05 <topcloud> for example, i remember ovm was not there for 4.0. i knew that but I never updated that page.
19:04:18 <topcloud> so i think we should make it a part of the cycle.
19:04:55 <jzb> ok
19:05:03 <jzb> we should include that in the discussion then.
19:05:13 <jzb> we're past the 1-hour mark.
19:05:16 <jzb> Anything else folks?
19:05:18 <jzb> sudhap: ?
19:05:33 <sudhap> jzb: nothing else - i am interested to see any new certifications that are proposed / complete feature list and defect list - I will keep watching wiki and mail threads for this info
19:05:43 <jzb> sudhap: OK, thanks
19:05:50 <jzb> topcloud: did you have anything to discuss or report?
19:06:14 <topcloud> nope
19:06:23 <jzb> OK
19:06:40 <jzb> thanks everybody, will send the minutes to the ML shortly
19:06:43 <kdamage> Just want to point out we have had a large increase in active VMware users
19:06:56 <jzb> kdamage: nice
19:07:14 <jzb> #endmeeting